.LOG 3:17 PM 7/13/05 Deleted only Gonazul Post.txt Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:42:29 -0400 3:10 PM 6/18/2005 Forum Nav: [WoW Raids and Dungeons] Topic: | 6/18/2005 7:05:32 PM PST 1 1 Gonazul Level 1 Orc Shaman Realm: Spirestone 1. 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...) | 6/17/2005 10:59:18 AM PDT | What's the rule for the 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...)? I don't know if there are other threads on that subject already, as I haven't had the time to read them all yet. A few points come to me as obvious about that though: 1. -5 players is the maximum limit per party group, which also shows those players on the minimap. 2. -It's possible to 'Convert to Raid' from the Social menu, but doing so denies some if not all of the dungeon's quests objectives. 3. -I don't know to what extent the 10 players would be able to complete quest objectives in instances if they are not grouped. In other words, it should be possible for the first 10 players to 'Enter' the instance to be together. Any one over (11 and up) would not be in the same instance, but in other copies of the same dungeon... Why isn't it possible? I'm sure many of those instance are hard enough to warrant 10 players to accomplish them. And I'm sure that more than one run is necessary to accomplish them. There may be less loot, but should be less death. I know it's possible to complete many of these dungeons depending on the skills and levels of the players. But still... I go to Wailing Cavern, and I think we were 6 players, the last one being on a raid slot all by himself. And tried to get Serpent Bloom, but wouldn't let me drop them in my inventory (bag). The timer goes through, only to deliver a snake, and no quest item loot. Isn't that caused by the 'Convert to Raid'? Also, once in raid, why isn't there an option to return back to group? The only way to return to a group seems to be by first leaving the raid, and then re-inviting everyone... This is one of my few posts, so I'd like valid answers, not insults, or PvP excuses! And yes, this is one of my lowest level 0 PC... ---- 60 Hitokiri Level 60 Night Elf Rogue Guild: Yuumei Realm: Bonechewer 2. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon. | 6/17/2005 11:23:24 AM PDT There is no option to convert a raid back into a group because it prohibits people from raiding an entire dungeon to the quest objective and then converting to group to pick up the item or kill the boss. You can raid dungeons for random drop loot fine, but quest rewards are reserved for those who completed the dungeon as it was designed to be completed with 5 people. ---- 60 Malax Level 60 Tauren Shaman Guild: Matrix Realm: Deathwing 3. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...) | 6/17/2005 11:32:47 AM PDT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: What's the rule for the 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...)? I don't know if there are other threads on that subject already, as I haven't had the time to read them all yet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dire Maul - 5 man max BRS - 15 man max MC/Onxyia 40 man max All others 10 man max -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: A few points come to me as obvious about that though: 1. -5 players is the maximum limit per party group, which also shows those players on the minimap. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correct, only 5 people show up even in a 40 man raid except in Alterac Valley. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: 2. -It's possible to 'Convert to Raid' from the Social menu, but doing so denies some if not all of the dungeon's quests objectives. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also Correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: 3. -I don't know to what extent the 10 players would be able to complete quest objectives in instances if they are not grouped. In other words, it should be possible for the first 10 players to 'Enter' the instance to be together. Any one over (11 and up) would not be in the same instance, but in other copies of the same dungeon... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only Raid quests are able to be done in raid. If someone tries to enter a instance that is the 11 man they get another copy of the raid, I believe. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Why isn't it possible? I'm sure many of those instance are hard enough to warrant 10 players to accomplish them. And I'm sure that more than one run is necessary to accomplish them. There may be less loot, but should be less death. I know it's possible to complete many of these dungeons depending on the skills and levels of the players. But still... I go to Wailing Cavern, and I think we were 6 players, the last one being on a raid slot all by himself. And tried to get Serpent Bloom, but wouldn't let me drop them in my inventory (bag). The timer goes through, only to deliver a snake, and no quest item loot. Isn't that caused by the 'Convert to Raid'? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just have to do another 5 man with the 6th rotated in. The quests are centered around 5 man groups. There isn't a quest that is only 5 man to date that someone hasen't finished to my knowledge. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Also, once in raid, why isn't there an option to return back to group? The only way to return to a group seems to be by first leaving the raid, and then re-inviting everyone... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That could lead to exploits of taking a 10man to clear to a quest item then converting back to non-raid. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: This is one of my few posts, so I'd like valid answers, not insults, or PvP excuses! And yes, this is one of my lowest level 0 PC... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?51442 ---- 60 Asphyxia Level 60 Undead Priest Guild: A View So Cruel Realm: Gorgonnash 4. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon. | 6/17/2005 12:50:12 PM PDT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Why isn't it possible? I'm sure many of those instance are hard enough to warrant 10 players to accomplish them. And I'm sure that more than one run is necessary to accomplish them. There may be less loot, but should be less death. . I go to Wailing Cavern, and I think we were 6 players, the last one being on a raid slot all by himself. And tried to get Serpent Bloom, but wouldn't let me drop them in my inventory (bag). The timer goes through, only to deliver a snake, and no quest item loot. Isn't that caused by the 'Convert to Raid'? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Holy crap. You know, I seriously was not going to comment on this but I am sorry. If you are taking 6 PEOPLE into Wailing Caverns...you need more help than just an answer to this post. ... and in reference to 'There may be less loot, but should be less death.'.... here is a tip : Play your class to the best of your ability, develop some skill, find some other people who don't suck and voila! LESS DEATH without NUMBERS!...skill...it's not a dirty word....wow what a concept. This post is why all the freaking instances need to be 5 manned capped that require 5 mans to complete the quests. Seriously. ---- 60 Konradkoln Level 60 Undead Warlock Guild: Lords of Grom Realm: Uldum 5. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...) | 6/17/2005 1:44:24 PM PDT Post #3 is a thoughtful response to the OP Post #4 is a flame from a jerk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tanks is watching you. ---- 60 Asphyxia Level 60 Undead Priest Guild: A View So Cruel Realm: Gorgonnash 6. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon. | 6/17/2005 2:01:18 PM PDT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Post #3 is a thoughtful response to the OP Post #4 is a flame from a jerk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How am I a jerk for that? There is a reason why the quests are made to be completed in 5 mans for these lower dungeons. This is because it requires skill and strategy not mindless numbers plowing through them. You can freaking 4 man Wailing Caverns with people who have half a brain. Why encourage bad gameplay and lack of skill? Why does everyone want the super easy way out? What the hell is the point of the game if you can theoretically plow through everything? This is not Pokemon or Treasure Hunt....'got to collect all the loot as fast I can!!!!!!!'....god...you know there is an element of thinking and skill required. Oh...nevermind. Maybe Blizz should bring the raid dropout exploit back and let all the instances be 40 manned like in the beginning ....yeah...that sounds great. Why bother trying to learn your class and use strategy and tactics when you can just bring in 40 people (or in this current Blizz world...10) and plow through! Fabulous idea. /end sarcasm [ post edited by Asphyxia ] ---- 60 Wintergreen Level 60 Troll Priest Guild: The Calculus of Death Realm: Hyjal 7. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...) | 6/17/2005 2:25:31 PM PDT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Why isn't it possible? I'm sure many of those instance are hard enough to warrant 10 players to accomplish them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are very few dungeons that are hard enough to warrant more than 5 players, and they are all level 58+. (currently only MC and UBRS unless I'm forgetting one, but BWL and zul'gurub will be also when they are released). The reason why 5 people is the most you can have to complete quests in the other dungeons is to encourage a challenge - you can still rampage through them with 10 for loot, but everyone should take on the challenge of a 5 man group in them each at least once for the quests if nothing else. ---- 60 Mirri Level 60 Night Elf Priest Guild: A F K Realm: Uldum 8. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon. | 6/17/2005 2:46:14 PM PDT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q u o t e: Holy crap. You know, I seriously was not going to comment on this but I am sorry. If you are taking 6 PEOPLE into Wailing Caverns...you need more help than just an answer to this post. ... and in reference to 'There may be less loot, but should be less death.'.... here is a tip : Play your class to the best of your ability, develop some skill, find some other people who don't suck and voila! LESS DEATH without NUMBERS!...skill...it's not a dirty word....wow what a concept. This post is why all the freaking instances need to be 5 manned capped that require 5 mans to complete the quests. Seriously. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good job on being an idiot. The OP is obviously fairly new at the game, and doesn't know all raid/group structures yet. He was asking in my mind, if I was new to the game, sensible questions. Probably also has 5 other friends that he plays with. And all you can do is flame him. Glad I don't play with you. ---- 60 Kiera Level 60 Night Elf Druid Guild: SrC Realm: Kel'Thuzad 9. Re: 10 Players Maximum per Instance (Dungeon...) | 6/17/2005 3:51:34 PM PDT There are no quests below Upper Blackrock that require more than one full group to complete (and should not allow them to do so). 1 Online Privacy Policy ©2004 Blizzard Entertainment. All rights reserved. 3:17 PM 6/18/2005, 4:39 PM 4:38 PM 6/18/2005 Forum Nav: WoW Raids and Dungeons wow Gonazul [quote] A. 2. -It's possible to 'Convert to Raid' from the Social menu, but doing so denies some if not all of the dungeon's quests objectives.[/quote]Yeah I found out where it is... It's mentioned under Parties -> Raid Group @ Quest Credit paragraph: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/raidgroups.html#Quest%20Credit "[b]Quest Credit[/b] Raid members cannot earn credit for most non-raid quests. Specifically, they will not receive credit for killing non-raid creatures or collecting items for non-raid quests. This is to prevent people from CHEESING powerful monsters or quests by just attacking them with a lot of players, thus making the battle trivial." That Raid-Groups cannot accomplish non-Raid quests... In addition, it is clearly stated as such, and defined as such. Therefore, I understand this. The only point I want to confirm on that is that, I was mentioning to instance members that it was possible to complete quests while in raid... Moreover, I want to point out my error(s) and findings about this: 1. It is only possible to complete instance quests in raid group if the drops are non-quest marked items (such as the 40 Deviate Scales in WC). 2. Other than that, no, it is not possible to collect quest item loot while in raid-group in an (or any) non-raid instance. Onyxia being a Raid-Instance for one... 3. The same would probably go for other quests related actions not involving quest loot... (Such as the Waking Naralex quest in WC, for a 10 slot bag...) [quote] B. 3. -I don't know to what extent the 10 players would be able to complete quest objectives in instances if they are not grouped.[/quote]Well, that I want to find out about, yeah... 10 players should be able to enter the instance and be together. Unless if with a previous group of 5, which they would be instanced with... In which case the previous 5 extra players would be gone to a separate instance... In addition, there are differences in group-buff, like the Imps Bloodpact STA buff, and so on... It'd also not be possible to cast on non-party members, without selecting those non-party members otherwise than with F2-F5... [quote] C. In other words, it should be possible for the first 10 players to 'Enter' the instance to be together. Any one over (11 and up) would not be in the same instance, but in other copies of the same dungeon... Why isn't it possible? I'm sure many of those Instances are hard enough to warrant 10 players to accomplish them. And, I'm sure that more than one run is necessary to accomplish them. There may be less loot, but should be less death.[/quote]Well, I didn't mention this yesterday, as I posted quickly... And didn't read through all the thread before posting my OP. But... Any Instances that can be accomplished by 5 players, and that do allow up to 10 players max, can be done faster at 10 than 5. For instance: I go to RFC, alone trying to solo it out (I've done it at 3 and 4, depending on level). Moreover, I died around the 1st pack of troggs, even at level 22, with a few skills not purchased, and no blue items... (I have a lvl 22 Warlock). I tried that instance at 3 with a level 40 or 30 Priest, who even Mind Controlled a Boss to plummer the mobs around it. That was funny. We got little XP for it though. We got the loot, and the quest were completed... I also tried RFC at 6, and 7, but was in raid-group... We couldn't complete the quest though we could share them I believe. The reason being, we died at 1st pack of troggs at bottom... RFC could be completed faster at 10 lvl 13-15 (or to 16, since some Bosses are lvl 16) than at 3, 4 or 5, even if of higher level and skills. Of course, there is all the XP issue and loot sharing that arises, but that is another story. Which btw, I'll be able to better address since I'm aware of it now. There's the nearby and participating kills XP sharing for groups, and nearby players not in-group. The looting is more complex, since it would not rotate as in a Round Robin or Group Loot mode... Sure there is the less loot per player, since that instance loot will be shared, and also less death (if and only played right that is...) But the speed at which the loot will be attainable can in fact make it more worthwhile overall... And as for the XP... If one is doing the Instance for quests rather than XP, than speed (or the rate at which it is successfully completed) becomes more important than the XP from mobs... Besides, it is the same XP for quests whether 1 or 10 players. I'll post more on this if and when I get more details... Include signature BML Formatting Codes Online Privacy Policy ©2004 Blizzard Entertainment. All rights reserved. 4:39 PM 6/18/2005 3:35 PM 7/13/05 3:47 PM 7/13/05